Siao liao

[tokugawa]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

[asdfghjkl]

i think better u tell not only ur family but ur flings as well.. :o

[born_mean]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.

Bro I'm really sorry to hear ur plight....all i can offer is a word of encouragement: "Stay positive".

I know it's almost impossible to stay positive but pls try to remember that there is always hope.

Take care & my sincere blessings,
BM

[collin_23]

Bro,

1st of all, u need to try to calm down. What is done is done, now what u can do is to do the following:

a) U need to tell your wife immediately( I know it is hard but u need to do it bro, find an excuse if u really cannot bear to tell her) so that she can go for a health check up to know if she is infected. The situation cannot be more worst if at the same time she happens to be pregnant. I hope not. :(

Yes, she will definitely scream vulgarities at u or whatever but u have done wrong. At this point in time b4 she had gone for a HIV test, there is still a slim chance that she may not have been infected.

Take note that your spouse needs to wait 1 month from last sexual contact with u for the HIV test to work. Follow up required at 3 and 6 months period to double confirm.

b) Bro, I suggest u read up the info under the HIV thread by Bro Big sexy and Bro Bongster. Also, seek advice from your doctor on how to fight the disease.

c) U need a person to talk to can try calling the helplines under my signature. Don't worry, I was once worried that I had caught the virus and had personally called the HIV helpline myself. The counsellor is a guy who is friendly.

d) Have u any kids and parents bro? Also u need to have a job to pay for the high cost of the medicines.

HIV cannot be spread through usage of utensils as such. Do read up if u r living with your family now so that u can protect yourself and them also.

I do not know if insurance covered HIV. Maybe u wish to check up your policy for claims if u had bought any insurance.

e) Regarding medications, I read b4 bros who have HIV usually went overseas like thailand to buy 'expired' HIV drugs. Although 'expired' maybe by a month or a day, the drugs r still usable and most importantly is cheaper than sg. Not expired ones I believe r cheaper also. Maybe u may wish to ask other bros. I was thinking of the worst if both you and wife r affected than the high amount of money needed to pay for the medications.

Take care bro. :(

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

[spinning]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Take care brother...

[collin_23]

Useful thread by bro big sexy. It is basically a thread about HIV.

http://www.sammyboyforum.com/showthread.php?t=17859

Questions regarding Aids:
6254 0212
Tues, Thur & Fri, 7.30am-9.30pm
1800 252 1324(During office hours)

SOS
1800-221 4444

Other help agencies(The child welfare section in case your kid needs help as in arrangements for his future..)

Child Welfare Section, Ministry of Community Development
1800-258 6378

Family service centre helpline
1800-838 0100

Fei Yue Family Service Centre helpline
1800-565 6626

Heart line
6339 6206

Shan you counselling centre
6741 9293

This line I saw on tv. U may wish to call if u wish to talk to someone.
Tel : 1800 221 4444.

ps: Bro, u need to pull yourself together. Your family needs u.

[thaivisitor]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.

Bro, I have 17 AIDS (not HIV) cases, male and female, here in one village in Thailand. In addition to whatever medicine the doctor is giving, all these 17 are taking Transfer Factor Plus and their antibodies count have reduced tremendously as compared to those who didn't take.

They now look OK, are able to work, and with time, I'm sure the antibodies will go to zero count.

You can PM me if you seriously want to try this.

[mysterious]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
.

do u know or suspect how u were infected??

[Rof|maoxz]

Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Tks~ for your advise and hope other bros be vigilant too. Breaking of this tragic news is easier said than done, somehow or rather you have to do it. After all be a responsible man and sincerely hope your wife may forgive you. I more worried of the cost of your medication later on. Take care.

[DienBienphu]

Hope for the best. Where you think you got it from? Batam?. Thailand?. Geylang free lancers?, Geylang legal houses?.

[ayako]

Follow on question: Do you BBBJ, S-rim, f-raw or anel? Can really educate some of the people here and prevent similar thing happen to them. :confused:

[WWEF]

I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.
Bro, u might wana tell us the list of WLs u have visited over the past few months....
So maybe we can avoid, and also tell them to go 4 checkup as well, for the WLs' own good..
Pls take care.

[ahpaul25]

Siao liao.......knn....think i also have to go check liao........haiz.......i rem i bonk 100+ gers b4...........si liao lah...........any1 wan to join me for checkup??? :(

[MachoDevilX]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Listen to ThaiV. I believe you won't want to give up any chances that might work. Whatever will come, will come.... Want to avoid also can't... This is Karma... So, no point to think or regret of it now since what has already been done cannot be reverse. Do whatever you can to help other people and I believe you will feel better...

Take Care!!!

[bongster]

Bro, check your pm I will give you the answer ASAP regarding the anti retiroviral drugs. And to all bros.. remember die die must wear cap!!!

[thaivisitor]

All bros can stop pressurizing him with questions on what he did, etc as to how he got HIV.

KNN, can't you imagine what he's going thru right now? Give him a break!

Surely you already know how HIV is transmitted? By sex without CD!!! That's the most common way of getting HIV. Of course sharing of needles, etc but that's the drug scene.

I suggest you give him realistic ideas on how to break the news to the family, precautions to take, etc, etc rather than dig information on how he was infected.

My 2 cents worth:cool:

[bongster]

Agreed totally wif bro Thaivistor, I have pm bro Togu wif assistance, what has been done has already been done. What he needs now is our support. This is a serious wake up call to all the RAW cheongsters here, bro Togu please reply my pm asap, with medication one can lead an almost normal life span, most impt is to get you on medication ASAP!!!

[beckham]

All bros can stop pressurizing him with questions on what he did, etc as to how he got HIV.

KNN, can't you imagine what he's going thru right now? Give him a break!

Surely you already know how HIV is transmitted? By sex without CD!!! That's the most common way of getting HIV. Of course sharing of needles, etc but that's the drug scene.

I suggest you give him realistic ideas on how to break the news to the family, precautions to take, etc, etc rather than dig information on how he was infected.

My 2 cents worth:cool:

hi thaivisitor,

not only sex without CD will kanna...ass-rim, BBBJ will also lead to HIV...

[fatassrider]

hi thaivisitor,

not only sex without CD will kanna...ass-rim, BBBJ will also lead to HIV...

what are the stats?

[spinning]

Looks like the safest way is DIY! :(

Anyway hope we all learn to be more cautious and practise safe sex from this thread...

[Furyman]

bro sad to hear your story,take care the medicine are very expensive,i heard from a friend you can get those medicine at a much cheaper price because they have expire but its still effective.will try to find out more for u

[lawry]

Base on Mr +++ugawa's post.. he mention RAW IS A BIG NO NO.. so what happens?

for all the people's information sake..

+++u enjoys going to TN and HC.. and sometime FL.. He does not enjoy going to GL cause he is afraid to bum into familar ppl.

Is it a ONS that +++u ganna from?

cause he mention in his post that CONDOM must be worn when bonking WL.. hmmmm..

[DienBienphu]

We need more information whether the starter of this thread has sex without condom. Where or who he did it with...this is important because the brothers need information and to affirm what AFA's mantra....SEX W/O CONDOM IS DEADLY

[bradpitt]

We all sympathise with your situation and hope you can look at the positive side of things.

brother lawry had analysed your habits and seems like you always use cd, so if you can enlighten all the brothers here on how u got it, it will save a lot of other peoples miseries. thnks alot..... :confused:

[beckham]

if he had sex with condoms, i think the other likely chance he might get contracted is through BBBJ..

what you guys think???

[asdfghjkl]

beck.. cant really say ler.. cuz he didnt tell us much.. :(

[bongster]

Base on Mr +++ugawa's post.. he mention RAW IS A BIG NO NO.. so what happens?

for all the people's information sake..

+++u enjoys going to TN and HC.. and sometime FL.. He does not enjoy going to GL cause he is afraid to bum into familar ppl.

Is it a ONS that +++u ganna from?

cause he mention in his post that CONDOM must be worn when bonking WL.. hmmmm..

Bro.. sometimes unlucky things could happen, ie condom break or in moment of heat do RAW or wat kinda of shit. Anyway what has happen already happen. I mean, why would bro Togu go for a check up? Surely something must have happen to make him go right, let us not speculate too much. What he needs nos is help!!

[t123ang]

hi bro +++ugawa, may you get all the strength and support from all around u.

[Doenitz79]

hi thaivisitor,

not only sex without CD will kanna...ass-rim, BBBJ will also lead to HIV...

That time I went to DSC for HIV screening.Roger Winder,the AFA programme director(he's in today's Straits Time p29) was my pre-test counsellor.He said you can't get HIV from ass rim or is it very very low risk.From what I can recall,the HIV virus will be dead by the time it gets to the saliva.That's what he said and considering his credentials,should carry some weight la,I don't know.

P.S:That time I didnt know this guy is the boss,thought he was some volunteer until I saw the papers today. :)

[bongster]

That time I went to DSC for HIV screening.Roger Winder,the AFA programme director(he's in today's Straits Time p29) was my pre-test counsellor.He said you can't get HIV from ass rim.From what I can recall,the HIV virus will be dead by the time it gets to the saliva.That's what he said and considering his credentials,should carry some weight la,I don't know.

Yeap... tat is quite true but dun forget if the ger has bleeding gums there is also a risk factor there. Anyway cases from oral sex etc are very rare... www.thebody.com, there is a theorotical risk still.. most cases of HIV in Singapore involving heteorosexuals are thru unprotected sex and frankly if you have ons esp at discos etc, sometimes the alocohol gets to you, or you might think... local ger lar, educated, should know how to take care of herself.

[Doenitz79]

Yeap... tat is quite true but dun forget if the ger has bleeding gums there is also a risk factor there. Anyway cases from oral sex etc are very rare... www.thebody.com, there is a theorotical risk still.. most cases of HIV in Singapore involving heteorosexuals are thru unprotected sex and frankly if you have ons esp at discos etc, sometimes the alocohol gets to you, or you might think... local ger lar, educated, should know how to take care of herself.

I am afraid that some people might take my words or more accurately Mr Winder's words for the green light to go for BBBJ.My advice is don't-there are also many other nasty infections you can get from a sick WL's saliva.

[WWEF]

KNN, can't you imagine what he's going thru right now? Give him a break!

Hi, bro TV, we all noe that he going through a very difficult time now....
From his previous posts, he seems a TN and HC chiongster...and he actually advised all samsters to wear a cap.....
I am not going to debate how he was infected, as we all noe, anything can go wrong, even with a CD.

But 1 life is already affected by this....excluding the WL.
So many ppl visit HCs/TNs everday, and the results can be devastating. Thats why we ask where he think he was infected....
We don't mean harm, and i am sorry if i sounded selfish or self_centred or watsoever...
The info is going to be very impt. for all of us here...
Again i empathize, my heart goes out to him...i hope he can find the courage soon..
No offence, pls, just my few cents worth.
PEACE.

[beckham]

yes, i do agree with WWEF and all the brothers here, i believe +++u bro should caution us where he got it from, so we can take extra caution in the future...

+++u bro, do take note that if you do need any help, you can request here, if possible, we can try and help you out of this crisis...

[DienBienphu]

This thing make the brothers in the forum very worried. I looked through Bro Togu previous posts and most of them highlight his preference for TN and HC. He claims an aversion to GL as pp would recognise him. As I frequent the legal houses and use CD all the time (ALL THE TIME) I wonder if Bro Togu go the legal ones or not and does he wear CD. Balaji oredi say that there are no HIV cases in Geylang in the recent News. We want to amke sure at least legal GL houses are safe. All the bRos here wanna know where Bro Togu did it and did he wear CD or not.

[righteousness]

Actually his main problem now will b how to get wife to go 4 test.

I suggest this.. if he was married recently, say one or 2 years, can say 'I used to do it wif my previous gf, so y not check up to play safe'? But if he was married longer then dunno liao

[bongster]

This thing make the brothers in the forum very worried. I looked through Bro Togu previous posts and most of them highlight his preference for TN and HC. He claims an aversion to GL as pp would recognise him. As I frequent the legal houses and use CD all the time (ALL THE TIME) I wonder if Bro Togu go the legal ones or not and does he wear CD. Balaji oredi say that there are no HIV cases in Geylang in the recent News. We want to amke sure at least legal GL houses are safe. All the bRos here wanna know where Bro Togu did it and did he wear CD or not.

Bro great to know you use CD all e time, however let mi warn you, cases in GL are not publicised, many of the WL retire suddenly because of failed health checks.

1) Imagine a house got HIV+ wat will happen to biz.
2) Many Thai and sometimes occasionally Cat 150 do RAW, read the tirak threads in GL forum.

Anyway FL are the most dangerous and die die die must wear cap. There are many who dun even care abt condom, if you dun believe walk down GL ask those indon minah say can dun wear bo, they sure say RAW they dun mind.

[bongster]

Actually his main problem now will b how to get wife to go 4 test.

I suggest this.. if he was married recently, say one or 2 years, can say 'I used to do it wif my previous gf, so y not check up to play safe'? But if he was married longer then dunno liao

Bro I have pmed Togu and waiting for his reply as I have professional help that could be aid to him. I know Togu has been online today but I have not received his pm... please Togu reply mi asap so I can get you in touch wif the people relevant in this field. I hope Togu chooses the right action. There are 2 roads to choose, namely the right one which is to take ARVs and lead a near normal life and with the use of condoms keep the disease in check or the wrong one which is to swear like Leonard(read my signature) who wants to spread the disease by going ard doing RAW.

[DienBienphu]

http://www.moh.gov.sg/corp/about/newsroom/speeches/details.do?id=30670856

Balaji's speech. Its interesting when he mention about geylang

[thaivisitor]

Actually his main problem now will b how to get wife to go 4 test.

I suggest this.. if he was married recently, say one or 2 years, can say 'I used to do it wif my previous gf, so y not check up to play safe'? But if he was married longer then dunno liao
I understand the concerns of fellow bros here. In fact, I myself would also want to know but I refrain from asking as I feel that if he wants to let us know, he will do it.

He will have a lot of "main" problems.

It is by law that the wife will have to go for test, and so does the recent people he have sex with.

Breaking the news to the family and wife is going to be one hell of a difficult. The family is going to know how and where he got it, who he might have pass on. His wife will know for sure the amount of cheonging he has done, etc. Whatever family consequences he may have to face, it is sad but he has to face it. If his wife wants to divorce him or whatever, there's nothing he can do about it. But if his family forgive him and provide him with support, than God Bless his family.

I tried to imagine myself in his situation. Really don't know what the fuck to do is considered right.

All I can do is wish him the best.

[collin_23]

Bro DienBienphu,

There is no way to make sure that all legal GL houses r safe. Many of the WLs in the legal hses engage in RAW sex also. A few of the WLs had told me b4 that condom breakages r common if they r not careful. This is because many a times if customer immediately went in after the BJ with the condom on, the WL without any lubrication as such condoms will break, esp when they had served many customers during the day and had already cummed many times.

Only safe sex is abstinence till marriage or PCC gently. lol. (In case u PCC too hard than injure it. ) :D

There is no point in asking him where or whom he suspected he got from. He may not be too sure himself either so how to answer u all, moreover his condition now.

Sex with condoms r not 100% safe either. There r so many kinda stds out there and any 1 will have disastrous consequences if affected. :(

This thing make the brothers in the forum very worried. I looked through Bro Togu previous posts and most of them highlight his preference for TN and HC. He claims an aversion to GL as pp would recognise him. As I frequent the legal houses and use CD all the time (ALL THE TIME) I wonder if Bro Togu go the legal ones or not and does he wear CD. Balaji oredi say that there are no HIV cases in Geylang in the recent News. We want to amke sure at least legal GL houses are safe. All the bRos here wanna know where Bro Togu did it and did he wear CD or not.

[Quill]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Our prayers go out to Mr +++ugawa. Nobody deserves to be infected with HIV. While treatment is expensive in Singapore, I would advise him to see an infectious disease specialist soon about his options and what needs to be done next. Mr +++ugawa is probably newly infected, has not displayed any symptoms and has a high cd-4 count. He may not need to be put on ARV medication so soon. But his case would require monitoring.

There's also no point asking how he was infected. While most people say they wear condoms, remember that it has to be worn consistently. Also, there are no absolute guarantees in life. Condoms, though effective in preventing STIs, have a failure rate of about 5 per cent for whatever reason.

Casual sex is a risky business. The best anyone can do is to keep that level of risk to the minimum.


Quill

[ayako]

Telling wife about it is difficult. But some people may get infected from wife or girlfriend. What happens if tell wife and wife says: chey, I already have it now then you know. then how?

Not that I want to pressure and probe. Anyway better to clarify where the HIV was from. Can help make the world a safer better place.

Actually if I am infected with HIV I can't be bothered to come online to tell people about it because I will be worried day and night. Unless I really want to tell people the danger of raw. If really want to tell danger then 帮人帮到底 tell where get it from better. But also difficult to remember get from where as HIV will take some time to confirm. :(

[john lone]

just want to say - stay positive and be strong. i know it is
very depressing now, u need to pull through, in time they may
come out with a new vaccine.

all the best, if u need people to talk to, can just drop a line.

take care.

[OkoBoko]

[QUOTE=+++ugawa]I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
QUOTE]


Be strong my friend, u really needs yr family supports now. Hope yr wife can accept it.

[punishit]

Another source of danger:

http://forum.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?p=897183#post897183

Swinger parties

Asked about the safety practised during
swingers’ meetings, the source confessed
that it is often neglected in the heat of the
moment.
“You can say that safety is aimed at not
getting any of the women pregnant. You
see, people are quite charged. It is difficult
to interrupt them and say: ‘Hey stranger,
please put on a condom before you continue’.”

[diesel]

Dear T-o-kugawa, Sorry to hear this. I may be black-hearted to suggest this but this is a very good way to come up a large sum of money for your family in future especially your wife and kid.

Do you you know HK singer Zhang Guorong died? Do you know why did he choose to be the 'superman' two years ago?

Before you do anything, buy a life insurance that can covers you millions of dollars. Hope you know what I meant. :(

[XsteelWolf]

OMG,I think I better go for a checkup at DSC.I bonk geylang girls....Any idea if 16 yrs old can go there check?

[viewsonic]

It's not easy to raise these issues to his family. Too many possibilities outcome will take place......... And today New Paper hv a article about "Aids"

http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/news/story/0,4136,86329,00.html?

It's sound to me that the Governement, in future, will not keep the patient particular confidentiality. And it will be a must for the patient to provide all the necessary informations like= where, when, who and how he/she get the virus for tracing purpose.

What do u guys think? Is it good if d in-charge authority will not keep the patient particular confidentiality. (Patients particular will release to other authorities/companies/family members upon request)

[ayako]

Dear T-o-kugawa, Sorry to hear this...

Before you do anything, buy a life insurance that can covers you millions of dollars. Hope you know what I meant. :(

Uhh... if he wants to buy the $1Million payout insurance now, before he buys he needs to go for AIDS test. Good idea but maybe cannot work.

[p100m]

I understand how he feel because I gone thru the same nightmare. I am luckily because it's turn out to be a false-positive. +++u bro, I pray for you and hope your family will forgive you. This is not the end. Best advise now is to stay healthy and I believe the vaccine will be available with the current advancement of technology. Please do not talk to anyone except trained consellor as you need to protect your family. Trust me, the prorities now are you and your family.

My true story....

Early March 05, I was told that my ELISA test turn was reactive. I did not go for Hemestrip test then because I visited my friend's clinic (GP). The Lab requested for a tube of blood for Western Blot test and the lab send it to SGH under MOH HIV Programme. Note that as long as it is confirmation test, MOH will know about it. The test took about 2 weeks and I was given 2 weeks MC because I am not functioning. It was a hell nightmare for me. I felt lonely and cried daily because I need to protect my family and children. No joke and I gone into serious depression. Even thinking of ending my life.

I spoke to AFA hotline from the link from this forum on the third day. They hear my story and assured me that I am classified under low risk. Why? Because my only other partner (girlfriend) and I did not fit into the profile. Both of us done our HIV test in Dec 04 and we are cleared. She did her 2nd test after I told her that my test was reactive. She scared hell out of life too and discuss with me on how to end together. Fortunately, she is cleared. In fact they told her it was conclusive and need not test again because the 2nd test is conducted in the 4 month. She couldn't believe them and took on another round a test from another GP using different Lab and other brand test kit. She is cleared again.

I visited DSC on forth day on saturday while waiting for my WB results. Did the Hemestrip test and result was negative. The consellor took another test and concluded that I am cleared and need not need to come back again. She was very sure that WB will be negative.

True enough, the SGH virology report came back as negative. I really glad that god answer my payer and given me a new life. However still mix feeling about the entire whole thing.. Happy because I am cleared and angry that my record already exist under the MOH HIV programme list.

Bros and fellow samsters, I learn my lesson and was given another life. Really not worth and stay faithful to your partner. If you guys happen to be at DSC last month on that saturday, you know what I mean. I sat there quietly controlling my tears and look obviously reacting abnormally.

[collin_23]

... :( ...no comments.

Bro +++u, even an ant struggles to survive much less a human being.

There was one particular story I read b4 about a couple who both got cancer, they knew that they will not have much time left and packed up everything to go for a round trip around the world. When they finally returned back home after some time, it was found out that one of them the cancer cells have miraculously died off completely.

Today at 7pm channel 8 will have the NKF show. Go on, have a look at the other people who r more considered by many to be more unfortunate than us. Even they refuse to give up despite the many pain they gone through. Kindly make some donations bros here. Good deeds beget good karma.

Cheers

Dear T-o-kugawa, Sorry to hear this. I may be black-hearted to suggest this but this is a very good way to come up a large sum of money for your family in future especially your wife and kid.

Do you you know HK singer Zhang Guorong died? Do you know why did he choose to be the 'superman' two years ago?

Before you do anything, buy a life insurance that can covers you millions of dollars. Hope you know what I meant. :(

[collin_23]

Bro p100m ,

Thks for sharing your case.

God, if u with us this moment, hope u give this bro another chance. :(

[tittyhawk]

Bro p100m - I am most happy for you. The anxiety that you went thru is beyond words. Eventhough I never had such experience (touch wood) as you, I can only imagine the suffering and frustrations that had brought upon you by a moment of urge and lust.
May this experience of yours serve as a warning to all bros - always wear rubber and never engaged in raw anything.

[bongster]

Bro P100M I am so glad yours was a false positive. I too was in the same wreck because of some shit last year, and obviously when you read my experience you will know why. Anyway this teaches us, if wanna play play wif rubber and no worries. Casual sex is very very common in Singapore, chatlines, clubbing, office, swinging, mass orgy etc it is everywhere and not to mention unsafe sex wif FLs. HIV is out there and if one does not protect there is a very substantial risk.

As for wat diesel said, dun listen to him, this guy is obviously one wif no conscience. IS MONEY everything???? Bro Togu has a good life to lead still, everything is not over. Remember contentment is the most impt thing in life... One can have all the money but not be contented.

[Eagle Hawk]

agreed with bro bongster

[bongster]

Diesel, if you *touch wood* kenna HIV too, what will you do? Kindly please dun come here and give crap suggestions that do not help but in fact worsen ppl mental state of mind.

[smartalex]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Bro, here are my thoughts to cheer u up. Remember - our lives are very short, and this is a wicked planet to be born in. We will all die one day - so whether death happens at 40 or 70 years old does not make much difference. My father died at 44 because of cancer. There are many others who died even younger due to road accidents or got murdered. So take heart bro. Its not like you are an immortal who lost your immortality.

[diesel]

Uhh... if he wants to buy the $1Million payout insurance now, before he buys he needs to go for AIDS test. Good idea but maybe cannot work.Yah..lah...test now first. Then produce the result mah. May be can work. Ultimately, the family benefits for it.

[Smeagol]

Yah..lah...test now first. Then produce the result mah. May be can work. Ultimately, the family benefits for it.

Most insurance policy only payout to cases whereby HIV was contracted from blood transfusion. Even for cases of suicide, the payout will only take place one year after policy approval.

So your stupid advice will require
1) Paying hugh amount of premium for next one year
2) cook up some stupid story about HIV contraction not through sex..... (you think the insurers so stupid meh??)
3) Mental torture of preparing one self for suicide in one years time

This is really bad, uninformed, insensitive, uneducated advice from your part.

You are a very bad person :mad:

[Quill]

"My true story....

Early March 05, I was told that my ELISA test turn was reactive. I did not go for Hemestrip test then because I visited my friend's clinic (GP). The Lab requested for a tube of blood for Western Blot test and the lab send it to SGH under MOH HIV Programme. Note that as long as it is confirmation test, MOH will know about it. The test took about 2 weeks and I was given 2 weeks MC because I am not functioning. It was a hell nightmare for me. I felt lonely and cried daily because I need to protect my family and children. No joke and I gone into serious depression. Even thinking of ending my life.

True enough, the SGH virology report came back as negative. I really glad that god answer my payer and given me a new life. However still mix feeling about the entire whole thing.. Happy because I am cleared and angry that my record already exist under the MOH HIV programme list."


A very interesting case indeed because false positive tests are extraordinarily rare. The newer generation ELISA tests have a very high sensitivity and in all likelihood, they are accurate.

Dr Quill

[diesel]

So your stupid advice will require
1) Paying hugh amount of premium for next one year
2) cook up some stupid story about HIV contraction not through sex..... (you think the insurers so stupid meh??)
3) Mental torture of preparing one self for suicide in one years time

This is really bad, uninformed, insensitive, uneducated advice from your part.

You are a very bad person :mad:

Sorry to suggest this.

[Historyx]

poor thing. Sigh.

[Frankiestine]

Bro, here are my thoughts to cheer u up. Remember - our lives are very short, and this is a wicked planet to be born in. We will all die one day - so whether death happens at 40 or 70 years old does not make much difference. My father died at 44 because of cancer. There are many others who died even younger due to road accidents or got murdered. So take heart bro. Its not like you are an immortal who lost your immortality.
Death is the only certainty in life, it is only that we wished to could die in a dignified manner. AIDS has been relegated to a shame disease to die of, why becos of the social stigma given by so call moralist that looks down on pple like us that engaged in alternative lifestyle. We all will die whether young or old, we will die. Until the day society takes a different approach and view of AIDS sufferers, many will chose to remain silent about even if they know they are stricken with the disease.

[holding]

So sad...do take care...Do hope u and your wife can work everything out & your wife will be fine...

most patients do live quite a sizeable amt of years with a positive mindset...

[LED...]

Very sorry to hear wht happen to you bro.........stay strong and after you have compose yourself.....like wht other bros said, do try your best to info those that you have fun with b4 in order to help others too......cheers

[poison]

Had not hear from u since u first post, hope u and wife are ok.
Although u siao liao but No words can express her anger and sadness, so please try and understand her part.

[licky]

After knowing that bro +++u had unfortunately kena HIV positive. I suddenly seem to wake up from my lusty dream from these past years. What would I react if I was in his case. I certainly would regret like hell and would not be able to face my family and wife.

Since started to engage in commercial sex thru’ this forum started with cheonging HC and later to GL and FL. Of course I never did raw b4 but had a few times of bbbj offer and I had gladly accepted it thinking it would be safe. Luckily for me, I was not HIV +ve the last time I had taken a test, ever since then I never accept bbbj. But you never know when your luck is down, the condom might break when you’re having sex.

After reading about bro +++u incident, I had decided this is the end of commercial sex for me and stay faithful to my wife. Just feel that I don’t want to regret it only when I kena AIDS or STD. As I’m now into Buddhism, begin to believe into Karma, you may not get your retribution in this life but it certainly will be in your next life and if the effect (AIDS) was infected to your wife or children, think of the suffering of the innocent. Don’t let their trust in you betrayed.

So to all bros who read this, go for a last checkup and stop engage in commercial sex or even ONS and be faithful to your spouse. Think of the hurt you will be causing them if the unthinkable happen. Don’t regret only when you gets sick. Don’t let your small head gets over your big head.

To those who bros who really gets addicted to sex, always wear condom even if it’s only a BJ! Nothing is 100% safe unless you don’t do it.

[licky]

And lastly all the best to bro +++u, hopes that he can be strong enough to face the reality.

[jswong]

My true story

Between 1994 to 1996, I was Kong Siak,Kin Chio Kar, GeyLang lor 4 to lor 24 chicken king. Always trying new birds here and there. $40, $60, $80 are my usual ones.Then I upgrade to Tanjung Pinang, Batam, Tanjong Balai and JB Ocean Paradise Hotel. Every sat morning, catching the first ferry with many other Singaporeans to nearby islands for cheap sex.
Sometime i didn't put CD, sometime i put. Tikum Tikum lor
One day, one of my cheong partner complaint of constant fever, night sweats, low sai always, non stop coughs. He went to check up. At first GP never suspect. After second visit. GP ask him to take a HIV test. 3 days later, he was tested positive. He was devastated and kept himseft from socialising, eating.
I was also panic. I cannot sleep, cannot work, dunno how to tell my wife. I went to polyclinic to take a HIV test. The doctor and nurse who attented to me look at me as though I am somekind of leprosy patient. The whole room was so eerie. I never return to collect my results.
I went to GP to take the test. They told me to wait 3 days. 3 DAYS, MY GOD, 3 MIN I ALSO CANNOT TAHAN DONT SAY 3 DAYS. I cried when I am alone, I was so worried i couldnt sleep. I couldnt eat. I told my parents and they were angry and lost. I went to Jesus, Mother Mary FOR HELP.
Then one day, the telephone rings. A voice says "Mr Wong, your HIV result is negative. Congratulations"
Afther that, I never dare to go to the islands. GL, HC. Everytime DIY.

[Verbatin]

My sympathy goes out to brother +++ugawa. He has to be strong. There is nothing i can say.

This is surely a wake up call for many of us here.

I too was also worried that i might caught the dreaded HIV disease. I have been living in fear for the past 13 year. my situation may not be as risky as many brothers who did raw with prostitue but i can tell u, the fear is the same for all who went through HIV testing.

This happened back in 1992 when i was still in the army. I went with a grp of army frd to Tanjung Pinang. I had a BBBJ with a gal. It lasted abt 15 second long and i manage to stop the gal in time. I didnt fuck her....just ask her to masturbate me.

As all expert would say BBBJ is consider very low risk. However i got very worried when i had those symptons associated with initiial HIV infection after abt 3 week. My whole body back broke out in rashes. Lesion of skin and many many red dot burst with blood. i really meant my whole body (back) was in red dots (looks worst than mosquitoes bite).

I also came down with fever (2 times in 2 week) and i lose 10% of my weight. I felt lethargic. Frds who saw me asked how come i suddenly lose so much weight. Deep down i know i am at a very low risk since it is only 15 sec of BBBJ, but those symption made me very worried (especially the weight loss and Rashes as never in my lfie i had so much weight loss and rashes)

I live with this fear for the past 13 yr of my life. I do cheong GL/TN for all u know but i never ever do BBBJ and fuck raw. it is just not worth the excitement.

Over the years, my fear of caughting HIV receded but still i couldnt sleep soundly when i think of the rashes and weight loss that i had back in 1992. for information, i never really regain those weight that i had lost. This would made me worried "once in a while".

recently i decided to go for a HIV test. Partly because i dont want to remain single forever. I would want to get married so it is good that i go for a check up. i was told i have to wait for 1 week. I can tell u that the 1 week is like a eternity to me. it is certainly my longest one week.

subsciously I kept thinking of the odds of getting it. It affected my work. I was lucky my busy work distract my worries and kept me going.

i keep telling myself i am going to be safe since it has been 13 long year (as i read that up 85%-90% of the pple with HIV will go on to develop full blown Aids if left untreated). I was thinking my odds has come down considerably since it has been a long 13 year.

However when i think of the rashes and my weight loss, i got very worried again. Then i reminded myself abt the low risk of HIV from BBBJ, my mood got better. But then again i think of the rashes and weight loss that i had, and i would get worried again. In a nutshell, my mood was like a pendulum swinging from one end to another depending on which odds i was "mentally calculating.

Like many brothers here, i did a lot of research abt HIV on the net. All these did not take away my fear. It only helps to swing my mood from one end to another.

After a week, i finally i got my HIV result. I was negative. Words cannot aptly decribe how i feel but i can tell u the feelings is better than the sex itself.

My advice to all cheongster is make sure u put on protection if u want to cheong.

[MitMit]

Hi Verbatin, why waited 13 years to get tested???!! If you are +ve, it would certainly be too late! Please do at least an annual testing if you are a regular cheongsters say the AFA volunteers. take care.

[bongster]

Bro... great u finally cleared. But why wait till 13 years after. To all out there... TAKE THE TEST EARLY. Relieve yourselves of any stress. But most imptly is to protect, if you dun protect, no number of tests can help you.

[icecoffee]

Same here, I mostly cheong WL, tomyam flavour, protected all the time, except for bbbj...I was in another country when I went for a checkup , and the doctor touched my neck and suspect the swollen lymph node was dued to HIV, she gave me a suspecting look which made me even more nervous...so went for test, that time my wife was beside me, wah, lagi worse...

The test itself took 1 hr, during that 1 hr, its was like awaiting the death sentence...it was really terrible, that time i promised myself never to go and cheong again, it's really ain't worth it...

In the end, it was negative...it feel like better than strike toto...so, lesson learnt...nowadays also diy liao, at least when get illness won't be so gan cheong.

[john_lim9]

so sorry to hear that..........
pls be strong

think the only way i can help is to chip in some fund for the expensive medical

any bro here collecting on his behalf pls count me in, thanks

[Verbatin]

I know it sounds stupid to live with it for 13 years. But i know that my risk is very very low since my exposure from BBBJ is only a short 15 seconds. I do cheong GL/TN once in a while but they are mostly HJ and i make sure i have protection when i have a BJ and FJ.

I know i am contradicting myself. On the one hand i was telling myself that my risk are very low, on the other hand i was also worried that somehow i maybe the first documented case of getting HIV from BJ. In the end, i was swayed by the fact that i was at a fairly low risk and i "conveniently" decided not to go for the test 13 yr ago. Over the years, the fear did not really go away. Sometimes it came back but it didnt really stay for long.

In all honesty, it is actualy the one week waiting period for the HIV results that is mentally killing. It is surely the longest one week of my life. Wild thought keeps running in my mind during that one week waiting period. This was compounded by the fact that i was down with rashes (whole back), fever and weight loss (10%) 3 week after my BJ exposure. I was told that up to 85% of the people would go on to develop Aids in 8-10 years (if left untreated). I am into my 13th year so my odds of getting it are really low. but still it is really mentally torturing.

When my result came out negative. I really feel that i just got out of jail. This is really a wake up call.

My advice to al brother is to make sure you are protected when you cheong. It will save you much anguish and trouble later one.


-------------------------

Hi Verbatin, why waited 13 years to get tested???!! If you are +ve, it would certainly be too late! Please do at least an annual testing if you are a regular cheongsters say the AFA volunteers. take care.

[bongster]

so sorry to hear that..........
pls be strong

think the only way i can help is to chip in some fund for the expensive medical

any bro here collecting on his behalf pls count me in, thanks

bro... u can make a donation to AFA instead :)

[Smeagol]

Frankly I do not give a shit about rep point. But for that chicken shit fella who zapped me, sent me the below message and dare not reveal his nick

Chicken shit fella's comment......."You've to look at the the other side. This chap (Diesel's suggestion about insurance and suicide) had made a suggestion whom he spared thoughts and favourable concerns for victim's family. How can you made such critism and personal attack?"

If it's advices for trivia matter such as choosing between chicken rice or duck rice... then it's no big deal because the consequences is just a crappy lunch meal.

When advice concerns about hugh sum of money and life.... you do not just blurt out careless comments with absolutely no considerations about the possible consequences that it may bring forth.

Go head.. zap me again if you wish...... I don't care... but I dare you to reveal your nick :mad:

[B.Bollocks]

I think all of us should be behind our +++u fwen(threadstater) here. Obviously he has kena something which remains the greatest fear of cheongsters here. Rubber or not, all of us stand a chance, no matter remote or not, of getting the deadly disease. But this is a disease not unlike cancer or a simple flu...so we shouldnt cast him or people like him any bad looks...The problem with this god-damn society is that they view people who are HIV positive as people with low morals and peverted or shameful.but think about it,how many people can be absolutely clean? I know of so many attached/married people who are now dating other gals, fucking around, and these gals are not hookers..they are just plain bitches....i'm not naming nationalities here..but the world is gng the HIV way man...so if u need anything, Mr +++u, maybe u can share with bros here...dun do anything stupid..u only live once..make the best out of it.think of ur loved ones,wife and if u have, children...killing yourself will pass ur burden to them...so be strong , shoulder ur mistakes...maybe willing bros here can stand together and help, if u need...

[AfA_hmor]

I just receive my verdict. I have develop the antibodies and positive in the HIV test.
Now the doctor asking me to tell my spouse about it and want us to go for counselling.
The doctor also said need to register my name inside the book.
Me very down now, how to tell my family about it ?
Very very regret, wish I can turn back time.
Anyone also in that situation ? Can share how you go through it ? Me very depress and lonely now.
I advice other bros out there if can please reduce commercial sex. No joke here. I am one of the statistics.

Dear +++ugawa,

I am absolutely sorry to hear about your predicament. The best possible solution is for you to start your treatment as soon as possible.

If you need any support or help from us, pls email us directly and we will try our best to provide the support that you need - for emotional support, family support, medical related issues including counselling.

Our email is [email protected]

Look forward to your email.

Best wishes

[SSOU]

Bro +++ugawa,

Take care bro & be strong !!

[flcult]

Dear T-o-kugawa, Sorry to hear this. I may be black-hearted to suggest this but this is a very good way to come up a large sum of money for your family in future especially your wife and kid.

Do you you know HK singer Zhang Guorong died? Do you know why did he choose to be the 'superman' two years ago?

Before you do anything, buy a life insurance that can covers you millions of dollars. Hope you know what I meant. :(

er, if i remember correctly, even if the insurance policies go thru, the claim procedure may take up to 3yrs or longer and since our ill-fated brudder already has his records in the "books", not sure if the insurers would pay at all.

with the technological advancement of medicine, it won't be long before there is a remedy for this dreaded virus.

bro +++u, brace up, you may have lost the battle for now but NOT the war. all the best!

[pussylicious12345]

ever wonder what will happen if someone with aids decides to go on a rampage (demanding for bbbj and so on) at commercial sex? we all know that such unprotected acts still do happen.........

very risky for all the bros out there............ :-(

[collin_23]

Bro,


I kena deducted by the same fucker I guess who zap u. He zap me for diesel's comment also.

That fucker left this comment:

[Never quote people's comment without giving clear explaination. You have done personal attack on him. Never do this again. He has suggested another worst suggestion afterall, he still spare thoughts for the victim's family.]

Looks like he got nothing better to do. Here we r trying to help bro +++ugawa and this fucker who got no balls to reveal himself is trying to act hero. By all means zap me. Would appreciate it more if u can offer more help than words. BTW, how is your mother? :D

KNN, diesel tells him go commit suicide leh by emulating zhang guo rong leh. His family how? U take care issit huh? :mad:

I came back here check out bro +++u status than happen to saw your comment here so bring it up also.

Cheers

Frankly I do not give a shit about rep point. But for that chicken shit fella who zapped me, sent me the below message and dare not reveal his nick

Chicken shit fella's comment......."You've to look at the the other side. This chap (Diesel's suggestion about insurance and suicide) had made a suggestion whom he spared thoughts and favourable concerns for victim's family. How can you made such critism and personal attack?"

If it's advices for trivia matter such as choosing between chicken rice or duck rice... then it's no big deal because the consequences is just a crappy lunch meal.

When advice concerns about hugh sum of money and life.... you do not just blurt out careless comments with absolutely no considerations about the possible consequences that it may bring forth.

Go head.. zap me again if you wish...... I don't care... but I dare you to reveal your nick

[collin_23]

Bro +++u, never give up hope. U have my support. :)

Happy 1 day, not happy also 1 day. Choose to live happily than to be sad. :cool:

I read about a true story where a couple both of them got cancer, they put down their jobs on hand, sold everything and went on a world tour. When they finally returned home after the tour, it was discovered that one of them had recovered completely while the other's condition had progressed well also.

When a person laugh, the brain releases chemicals which r good for the body as in adrenalin etc which will help a person to stay healthy. The brain is unable to differentiate between real or fake laugh so by all means laugh. It is beneficial to your body. I ever saw a group of elderly people every saturday morning get together to laugh together while exercising.

Cheers

[B.Bollocks]

Bro +++u, never give up hope. U have my support. :)

Cheers

Reps points are nothing....since power is given to anyone, even those witha warped mind or unbalanced sense of injustice...does losing a few points hurt u?+)

[collin_23]

:D LOL. :D

Bro +++u, never give up on yourself. U have my support.

Cheers

Reps points are nothing....since power is given to anyone, even those witha warped mind or unbalanced sense of injustice...does losing a few points hurt u?

[HuiGe3387]

Wondering how is +++u ? He's gone quiet since started the thread. Hope he's coping well.

[roytan]

Hi Bro +++ugawa,

I truly understand how u feel now. Hope u r coping well. There are many bros out here that will lend u support. Do not enclose yrself. Many people with HIV can survive for many years and live like a normal person. U can stregthen yr body immunity through proper diet and healthy lifestyle. Cheaper medications also available in Thailand. I respect u for owning up on yr illness to alert bros out there about the possible dangers of casual sex..... Tan

[machoman]

+++ugawa, are you alright? Many ppl have given sound advice as well as shared their experiences in this thread.

View the posts and contact AFA, other professionals and even your religious leaders for their medical, family, emotional and spiritual support.

Always remember that you are not alone. There are others facing the same or similar health problems. Learn from them to overcome yours. :cool:

[HuiGe3387]

I have been thinking about this thread ever since I first posted my reply. Think better stop the bbbj, eat pussies of the FL and WL. Better use the condom even tho' the feeling may not be that song. Anybody felt the same way ?

[excm69]

.....Think better stop the bbbj, eat pussies of the FL and WL. Better use the condom even tho' the feeling may not be that song. Anybody felt the same way ?

I created a poll on using condom for blowjob from ONS, FL & WL and the responses so far show that most cheongsters will go for BBBJ nonetheless. Perhaps because there are conflicting views from the experts on getting HIV from BBBJ that there is a sense that BBBJ is safe!!

Any brothers know of any latest conclusive medical research on the subject of exposure to HIV from BBBJ??!!

To all, take good care of yourselves. :)

[HuiGe3387]

Think better be safe than be sorry

[Khun_Thai_Jedi]

Take care bro, we are all behind you . Hope everything will turn out the way you want em to be.

[nuoyah]

I am sorry to read about the plight of a bro samster. Having "cheonged" for more than 15 years, I have tried to urge bros to think with their big head and not to cheong in the heat of passion. If you need to visit a GL / PRC pro, you must take the necessary precaution. ALWAYS use a condom for a blowjob and NEVER bonk the girl raw. It is the most stupid thing to do and in the past, I have always regretted the action immediately after. Fortunately for me, I was lucky enough not to contract anything and since then, I have changed my MOP to prioritise safety as follows:

1 - cheong less. In doing so, I save more money
2 - always use a rubber even for a BJ.
3 - no rubber... no action. At most... only a handjob

Follow these above safety rules and you will get to cheong a long time. Do not listen to idiots in the forum who taunt you by saying "scared dun cheong.... cheong dun scared". IMHO even the smart opium/drug pushers do not abuse their body after seeing what it does to addicts.

[Khun_Thai_Jedi]

I am sorry to read about the plight of a bro samster. Having "cheonged" for more than 15 years, I have tried to urge bros to think with their big head and not to cheong in the heat of passion. If you need to visit a GL / PRC pro, you must take the necessary precaution. ALWAYS use a condom for a blowjob and NEVER bonk the girl raw. It is the most stupid thing to do and in the past, I have always regretted the action immediately after. Fortunately for me, I was lucky enough not to contract anything and since then, I have changed my MOP to prioritise safety as follows:

1 - cheong less. In doing so, I save more money
2 - always use a rubber even for a BJ.
3 - no rubber... no action. At most... only a handjob

Follow these above safety rules and you will get to cheong a long time. Do not listen to idiots in the forum who taunt you by saying "scared dun cheong.... cheong dun scared". IMHO even the smart opium/drug pushers do not abuse their body after seeing what it does to addicts.


I firmly agree with you .

[Dizzy_88]

nowsdays i also very scared.. Even condoms i bought it myself.. i dun trust those ulu ulu brands.. Dun mind paying more to bonk at ease and safetly..

Juz pray hard there is a cure for it.. Even new gf i also dun dare to bonk raw.. HIV is really making us living in fear constantly..

As for bro +++ugawa i dunno wad to say to comfort u... Juz hang on there dun give up.. we muz fight the virus back..

[Siam_Bu]

nowsdays i also very scared.. Even condoms i bought it myself.. i dun trust those ulu ulu brands.. Dun mind paying more to bonk at ease and safetly..

Juz pray hard there is a cure for it.. Even new gf i also dun dare to bonk raw.. HIV is really making us living in fear constantly..

As for bro +++ugawa i dunno wad to say to comfort u... Juz hang on there dun give up.. we muz fight the virus back..
agree with u bro :)

[PeggyWet]

Bro +++ugawa,

Stay healthy and practise a healthy lifestyle. Do what is necessay to increase your immune system. For all that you know, maybe a cure could be found soon. Anyway, the message is be strong & stay positive. Look at Magic Johnson, he is still ok !!

Take care, Mr +++ugawa

Peggy

[sincere8888]

I have no friends or heard about any close ones that has AIDS. I have an encounter this week with a taxi driver that told me he has three friends that died of AIDS.

He told me he visited them in CDC before they died after getting AIDS for 6 months. He said it was a very scary visit. One of his friend used to be a big size man after getting aids shrink into a small size man, his fingers appeared to be much shorter than before, skin turned into brown color. He said that the only way to describe it, is like his friend is turing into more like a monkey than a human being. And when the nurses drag his friend for injection or other activities, his friend will scream like hell, as every single touch is very very painful. He told me after seeing his friend painful death at the CDC, he will never dare to fuck any other woman that offers him sex even it is for free.

I guess for people with high sex drive but are married, perhaps a visit to the CDC to see the AIDS patient can help to cure the urge for paid sex. To die it can be quite simple, but to suffer six months and turn into a monkey like creature and die a painful death, is a totally different story.....

[Khun_Thai_Jedi]

Hmmm...... So who is planning an excursion for samsters to CDC ?