Divorce Lawyers - Recommend?

[FloweryMonk]

Brothers, I am looking for an experienced divorce lawyer for obvious reasons.

I dun have much assets to contest but only want the custody of my son.

Prefer lawyer to be able to write and converse in Mandarin.

Please recommend if you know any good ones and rough cost / timeline.

A curious question: will a female lawyer representing a male party in this case be an advantage in court or negotiation with other female party?

Many thanks to helpful bros in my difficult times......

[SpitZur]

Brothers, I am looking for an experienced divorce lawyer for obvious reasons.

I dun have much assets to contest but only want the custody of my son.

Prefer lawyer to be able to write and converse in Mandarin.

Please recommend if you know any good ones and rough cost / timeline.

A curious question: will a female lawyer representing a male party in this case be an advantage in court or negotiation with other female party?

Many thanks to helpful bros in my difficult times......

Fyi, initial divorce, woman will get child due woman's charter. A lawyer will now only settle the maintenance part for the woman & kid if applicable & splitting of assets like HDB flat if any.
Custody of the child is another longer story & another legal battle. First round will be custody hearing and so on which is quite a S.O.P for judgement to share kid with visiting outing rights.
Only round 2 will be the actual fighting for care & control of kid.

So, incase you are not aware, you have 3 legal battles or 3 separate cases to go into ahead of you. Not one.

Financially, it will be something that you have to be prepared for. A lot of time & a lot to proof to show you are a better qualified carer for the child opposed to the woman.

You can look for:
Jonathan Wong
https://www.tembusulaw.com/about/our-team/

With regards to female lawyer representing you. It won't make any difference at all so don't bother about this.

[Zetyalpha]

Let me warn you, yr ex-wife might resort to false accusations to alienate you from your child in the future. Check out this single father's case.

Women know they got covered under women's charter. Once they divorce/breakup with a man. Do not trust them.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090853655866

[larue]

Full care and control, and custody are very hard for a man to win. But what is it that you want?

Full care and control (daily living) with sole custody (you decide everything for the child), or just care and control but joint custody (parents make decisions jointly, so you cannot just take your child to another country for example). Sole custody is very rare, even for mothers.

You must be able to prove that his mother is totally unfit and incapable of carrying out her duties as a mother, and the bar for proving this is very high.

Is she unfit to be a mother with the evidence that you have?

Maybe she's been in jail for drug offences for many years and won't change? Perhaps she has stabbed your son with a pair of scissors and you have a psychiatrist's report testifying that he is scared shitless of her?

I had what I thought was a strong case if I needed to fight, my lawyer completely dismissed my 'evidence'.

But working it out is better than fighting if your chance of winning is not great.

How old is your son? That makes a big difference also

[fallen11]

Brothers, I am looking for an experienced divorce lawyer for obvious reasons.

I dun have much assets to contest but only want the custody of my son.

Prefer lawyer to be able to write and converse in Mandarin.

Please recommend if you know any good ones and rough cost / timeline.

A curious question: will a female lawyer representing a male party in this case be an advantage in court or negotiation with other female party?

Many thanks to helpful bros in my difficult times......

Bro
seriously
i dont recommend you fighting for it. I can understand the pain of losing a loved one. But you have to learn to let go. There is a chance you might end up losing even more

Reasons:

1. Lots of money involved, for lawyer fees.
2. Women easily resort to false accusations against you because they are protected by WC from being penalised. Even when lying in court (at most a small punishment).
3. Time and effort besides the money, will take a very heavy toll on you. False accusations will lead you to countless visits to police station due to arrests for prevention of danger / assisting in investigations. it may even embarrass you to the public (your job / your other family members, etc). Imagine police coming to haul you in at your workplace.
4. Women often may resort to hold the child ransom, in order to keep custody. Yes even harming the child. Might beat the child up then bring the child to file a police report saying you did it (threaten the child to say you did it). I was such a victim once (as a child). It will cause the child physical and phycological harm (scars).
5. Do you know what women may do as a last resort when they are losing the child custody? They may hug the child together and end it all. This is quite common knowledge. So be very careful about it.

You should only contest for child custody if the woman is... violent, drug addict, gambling addict, alcohol addict, largely disabled, insane or dying. Under such circumstances, you will be favourable in court and the child probably has a better life with you (but points 4 & 5 may still be applicable).

[FloweryMonk]

Fyi, initial divorce, woman will get child due woman's charter. A lawyer will now only settle the maintenance part for the woman & kid if applicable & splitting of assets like HDB flat if any.
Custody of the child is another longer story & another legal battle. First round will be custody hearing and so on which is quite a S.O.P for judgement to share kid with visiting outing rights.
Only round 2 will be the actual fighting for care & control of kid.

So, incase you are not aware, you have 3 legal battles or 3 separate cases to go into ahead of you. Not one.

Financially, it will be something that you have to be prepared for. A lot of time & a lot to proof to show you are a better qualified carer for the child opposed to the woman.

You can look for:
Jonathan Wong
https://www.tembusulaw.com/about/our-team/

With regards to female lawyer representing you. It won't make any difference at all so don't bother about this.

thanks brother, now i know there are 3 legal cases. i am trying to save some money for the lawyer fees. will 5k be sufficient? how long will this drag? i assume long drag means higher lawyer fees.

[FloweryMonk]

Let me warn you, yr ex-wife might resort to false accusations to alienate you from your child in the future. Check out this single father's case.

Women know they got covered under women's charter. Once they divorce/breakup with a man. Do not trust them.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100090853655866

thanks brother, i no scare of false accusations. if i done nothing wrong, why shd i be afraid of, even if police come?

[FloweryMonk]

Full care and control, and custody are very hard for a man to win. But what is it that you want?

Full care and control (daily living) with sole custody (you decide everything for the child), or just care and control but joint custody (parents make decisions jointly, so you cannot just take your child to another country for example). Sole custody is very rare, even for mothers.

You must be able to prove that his mother is totally unfit and incapable of carrying out her duties as a mother, and the bar for proving this is very high.

Is she unfit to be a mother with the evidence that you have?

Maybe she's been in jail for drug offences for many years and won't change? Perhaps she has stabbed your son with a pair of scissors and you have a psychiatrist's report testifying that he is scared shitless of her?

I had what I thought was a strong case if I needed to fight, my lawyer completely dismissed my 'evidence'.

But working it out is better than fighting if your chance of winning is not great.

How old is your son? That makes a big difference also

thanks brother, now i know full custody is difficult but what does joint custody means? even go overseas holiday must get agreement? She will make difficult by saying no to all things.

i tried to work it out with her but her demands unreasonable, she will say no to all things and just want to make my life like hell.

my son 12 years old. any difference?

[FloweryMonk]

Bro
seriously
i dont recommend you fighting for it. I can understand the pain of losing a loved one. But you have to learn to let go. There is a chance you might end up losing even more

Reasons:

1. Lots of money involved, for lawyer fees.
2. Women easily resort to false accusations against you because they are protected by WC from being penalised. Even when lying in court (at most a small punishment).
3. Time and effort besides the money, will take a very heavy toll on you. False accusations will lead you to countless visits to police station due to arrests for prevention of danger / assisting in investigations. it may even embarrass you to the public (your job / your other family members, etc). Imagine police coming to haul you in at your workplace.
4. Women often may resort to hold the child ransom, in order to keep custody. Yes even harming the child. Might beat the child up then bring the child to file a police report saying you did it (threaten the child to say you did it). I was such a victim once (as a child). It will cause the child physical and phycological harm (scars).
5. Do you know what women may do as a last resort when they are losing the child custody? They may hug the child together and end it all. This is quite common knowledge. So be very careful about it.

You should only contest for child custody if the woman is... violent, drug addict, gambling addict, alcohol addict, largely disabled, insane or dying. Under such circumstances, you will be favourable in court and the child probably has a better life with you (but points 4 & 5 may still be applicable).

thanks brother, i understand your reasons but i promise my son i will fight for his custody. in the past, i gave my life and money to the family and now i am in debts and chased out of my house by her mother. my son does not want me to say yes to her all the times like in the past. he wants me to fight for him, whether he end up with his mother or me. i need to stand up and say no to all the bullshits in life.

reply reason 1 - will 5k be enough?
reply reason 2 - i no afraid of false accusation, it will only dis-credit her.
reply reason 3 - it is alrady heavy toll being separated from my son. i am a nobody waiting to die, it can hurt me more but if need to go thru it to be with my son, i will.
reply reason 4 - i am alrady chased out of my house so this false accusations will not work. anyway if i done nothing wrong, why shd i be scare? if she does hurt her own son, then she is not fit to be a mother.
reply reason 5 - i think she will drag me to death with her rather than my son. she said she wanted to kill me so i am prepared to die or fight.

[SpitZur]

thanks brother, now i know there are 3 legal cases. i am trying to save some money for the lawyer fees. will 5k be sufficient? how long will this drag? i assume long drag means higher lawyer fees.

Boss, if you have to save even now, I suggest you go into this no contest. 5K isn't alot. This lawyer I intro to you, you can google the law firm or the lawyer himself to see their/his ranking. Last heard is top 10.

1) Lets assume 1st session for divorce can be around 5K & below.
2) Let's assume 2nd session because you want care & control which 110% sure will not be awarded to you, will cost around 8k-10k. Verdict as mentioned will be joint custody means kid will be staying at both houses a few days a week subject to court's judgement.
3) Now you are not happy with the verdict of (2) and you want to appeal & fight for full care & control. Be prepared to spend around 8-10k

Duration:
1) Divorce can be very fast if both parties agree but if there are hiccups along the way for whatever reason, 6mths-1yr
2) 2nd session may involve child psychologists from MSF to be involved for them to see how the kid behaves infront of mom, then dad and then both mom & dad. This will take quite a few months alone & many session at MSF. Expect around 6-8months. Once finding is complete, they do a report, submit to courts & the court will, as I mentioned, if all goes well, award both of you joint custody & then both of you will have to arrange when who gets to keep the child. This part, expect 10mths-1yr
3) Appeal for full care & control. This part is very subjective as this goes into very crucial part of family court because a minor is involved. Expect another 6-12mths but unless you have a super solid case against why you should be in full care & control, and the mother damn jialat for whatever reasons ( must have proof ) then give your lawyer & see how they feel whether this evidence can or cannot or useless if used.

If you still need to save now boss, I dare say, you are not financially very well off. For that alone, the courts will look at you as unable to financially take care of the child already. That's already not in your favour.

Personally, I would suggest you do this. The LEGAL age a kid can decide who to stay with is 16. Do what you have to, to ensure the kid will decide to move in & stay with you once he turns 16.

In the meantime, save the money for your kid's upcoming future expenses etc


This is my personal & company lawyer so I know him very well & 100% trust his ability.
The above cost & timeline shared is because I intro him to a good friend recently who also went through the same things I mentioned above.
I also told him to skip the appeal in the end & save the money & do everything he can to aim for the boy's 16th birthday!!
*I do not earn any commission but if someone, anyone asks me to recommend a lawyer, I will recommend him for sure*

[larue]

thanks brother, now i know full custody is difficult but what does joint custody means? even go overseas holiday must get agreement? She will make difficult by saying no to all things.

i tried to work it out with her but her demands unreasonable, she will say no to all things and just want to make my life like hell.

my son 12 years old. any difference?

12 years old big difference. At that age, which parent they wish to stay with will carry a lot of weight in court.

In today's paper a woman got care and control of her 11yo girl, reversing an earlier decision to award it to the father because the girl made it clear she wanted to stay with her mother.

If you are certain that your son will say that he prefers to stay with you (no, he won't be asked with his mother present), and you can prove that you can take care of him, financially, have a place for him to stay, stable environment etc, you chances are greatly improved.

Of course we don't know whether you can satisfy all these other conditions, since you mentioned you're in debt and chased out of your own home, although I don't know how that can happen. The home is in your name as well? There is cash value in it after selling? Enough to clear your debts from your share? Where can you and your son stay? Are you employed? Many questions.

What I feel about your care though, is that you should fight. Do it for your son. You have fuxked him up enough by marrying this woman, giving in to her every time, and then having him.

Children need emotionally stable parenting, do you want to subject him to her emotional abuse and blackmail growing up? I can imagine the outcomes that await him in life if you do that, and they are mostly not good ones.

Custody will always be joint, barring the most exceptional of caes and yours is not exceptional enough that either one of you will get sole custody, which applies only to major decisions like which school to attend, approval for major surgery etc. Life affecting decisions.

Bro above gave good practical advice, especially about waiting. But at the same time these are crucial years for your son, and my own experience is that freeing my son from a toxic family environment is the best thing I have done for him.

He was 10 then, he's 15 now. Healthy, happy and confident. Initially it is always hard, very hard on everybody but with time everything gets better also.

Whatever you do, fight hard for as much access time to him as possible. Just showing you are standing up for him in a way you never did before will make a difference.

Unfortunately one difference is that I could afford the fight, and $5k isn't anywhere near enough for the sort of fight you look like you are going to have.

Make sure your son understands what you're trying to do, talk to him. Parental abandonment is the worst emotional experience a child can have.

[fallen11]

reply reason 1 - will 5k be enough?
reply reason 2 - i no afraid of false accusation, it will only dis-credit her.
reply reason 3 - it is alrady heavy toll being separated from my son. i am a nobody waiting to die, it can hurt me more but if need to go thru it to be with my son, i will.
reply reason 4 - i am alrady chased out of my house so this false accusations will not work. anyway if i done nothing wrong, why shd i be scare? if she does hurt her own son, then she is not fit to be a mother.
reply reason 5 - i think she will drag me to death with her rather than my son. she said she wanted to kill me so i am prepared to die or fight.

1. rough estimation i think you should prepare for at least 20k to be safe. You can always get a quote from legal firm first, before committing too it.
2. sorry it doesnt work this way here. WC overrules a lot of things in singapore law.
3. I think you are not being rational here. You are making decisions purely based on emotion now. Calm down and think it through. And also consider your son's FUTURE. As a child victim of such divorce before, i can tell you that parents having money is much much more important than custody issue. If i am your child, i would rather you save up the money to support me / my studies etc when i grow older. Your son may not feel it now, but he will when the time comes.
4. I can only say to you, that things are not that simple in the real world. Many mothers are not fit to be one as well. Yes you may be innocent. but the legal process you have to go through to prove it, is certainly enough to destroy what you have now. I'm not saying that you should just give up because of this. I'm saying you have to be very prepared if you want to go thru it. Worse is you go through it halfway and give up. You paid the price but got nothing in the end if you give up halfway. The stress itself can almost kill you.
5. You have not met the limits of a woman's scorn. They dragging your son to death is much more worse than dragging you to death. Dont you agree? Have you not heard of stories where mothers wear red and jump down a building hugging her child? When a woman has pure hate for you, she will look for the worst possible way to screw your life. Comes to the point where Death, is the easy way out.

[SpitZur]

Personally, if the kid is 12yrs old now, even if you add in the estimated duration of all the pending legal proceedings, he will almost or as good as turn 16yrs old already.
If you think objectively, then all the expenses time effort etc for the legal will be for nothing.
I still strongly recommend you use this time to build your own capital assets and wait for your kid to turn 16.

That's my opinion, it may not be the same as yours.

[FloweryMonk]

Boss, if you have to save even now, I suggest you go into this no contest. 5K isn't alot. This lawyer I intro to you, you can google the law firm or the lawyer himself to see their/his ranking. Last heard is top 10.

1) Lets assume 1st session for divorce can be around 5K & below.
2) Let's assume 2nd session because you want care & control which 110% sure will not be awarded to you, will cost around 8k-10k. Verdict as mentioned will be joint custody means kid will be staying at both houses a few days a week subject to court's judgement.
3) Now you are not happy with the verdict of (2) and you want to appeal & fight for full care & control. Be prepared to spend around 8-10k

Duration: --------
thanks brother, i am not in financially good shape because of her but I have a stable job.

as u explained the duration can be 2 years or more for all the appeals and fights. my thinking is to prepare 5k upfront first then the remaining amount I can save progressively and pay periodically to lawyer. i am sure not need to pay all of lawyers fee 20k to 30k upfront one time now. Correct?

separately i will save up for child's future expenses.

[FloweryMonk]

12 years old big difference. At that age, which parent they wish to stay with will carry a lot of weight in court.

If you are certain that your son will say that he prefers to stay with you (no, he won't be asked with his mother present), and you can prove that you can take care of him, financially, have a place for him to stay, stable environment etc, you chances are greatly improved.

Of course we don't know whether you can satisfy all these other conditions, since you mentioned you're in debt and chased out of your own home, although I don't know how that can happen. The home is in your name as well? There is cash value in it after selling? Enough to clear your debts from your share? Where can you and your son stay? Are you employed? Many questions.

What I feel about your care though, is that you should fight. Do it for your son. You have fuxked him up enough by marrying this woman, giving in to her every time, and then having him.

Children need emotionally stable parenting, do you want to subject him to her emotional abuse and blackmail growing up? I can imagine the outcomes that await him in life if you do that, and they are mostly not good ones.

Custody will always be joint, barring the most exceptional of caes and yours is not exceptional enough that either one of you will get sole custody, which applies only to major decisions like which school to attend, approval for major surgery etc. Life affecting decisions.

Bro above gave good practical advice, especially about waiting. But at the same time these are crucial years for your son, and my own experience is that freeing my son from a toxic family environment is the best thing I have done for him.

Make sure your son understands what you're trying to do, talk to him. Parental abandonment is the worst emotional experience a child can have.

thanks brother, i believe i can offer a better environment than his mother. the debts under my name are because of her and i got chased out and left the house to avoid further fights which i saw were damaging my son.

i appreciate practical advise like waiting till 16 years old but i worried abt my child's growth under his mother. My son asked me whether i think it is best for him to be with his mother. i cannot tell him that i have no money to fight for his custody so he has to live with his mother no matter if it is best for him or not. i want to try to show him that his father is not a bad person as described by his mother and the legal system will return me the justice i deserve after these years.

[FloweryMonk]

1. rough estimation i think you should prepare for at least 20k to be safe. You can always get a quote from legal firm first, before committing too it.
2. sorry it doesnt work this way here. WC overrules a lot of things in singapore law.
3. I think you are not being rational here. You are making decisions purely based on emotion now. Calm down and think it through. And also consider your son's FUTURE. As a child victim of such divorce before, i can tell you that parents having money is much much more important than custody issue. If i am your child, i would rather you save up the money to support me / my studies etc when i grow older. Your son may not feel it now, but he will when the time comes.
4. I can only say to you, that things are not that simple in the real world. Many mothers are not fit to be one as well. Yes you may be innocent. but the legal process you have to go through to prove it, is certainly enough to destroy what you have now. I'm not saying that you should just give up because of this. I'm saying you have to be very prepared if you want to go thru it. Worse is you go through it halfway and give up. You paid the price but got nothing in the end if you give up halfway. The stress itself can almost kill you.
5. You have not met the limits of a woman's scorn. They dragging your son to death is much more worse than dragging you to death. Dont you agree? Have you not heard of stories where mothers wear red and jump down a building hugging her child? When a woman has pure hate for you, she will look for the worst possible way to screw your life. Comes to the point where Death, is the easy way out.
thanks brother, u have good advises that set me thinking for days.
1) if no need 20k upfront payment, but progressive over 2 years is ok for me.
2) will WC support false accusation? i too have a lot of factual accusations which happened over the years but i dun have paper proof. i am thinking how to get substantial proof.
3) i am calming down for 2 months before now. thinking is not what i am good at, and i still dun understand the argument of money over custody. But i will save for my son's future and will be able to support whether now or in future.
4) do you mean WC will make me guilty as accused until proven innocent? but yes i am prepared. i endured all the pains over the past 10 years and even now i felt painful / stress that i can drop tears in public. i need to be brave now.
5) i believe the mother loves her son too much to drag him to death with her. But i believe the mother will commit suicide when pushed to the extreme emotions. Belief in this had myself tied to being a yes-man in this household for years and enduring all the abuses. My son also see in the family and pointed out to me that she is trying to guilt-trip me. this is the first time i learn this word "guilt-trip". That is why he ask me to try to fight for him because my son wants to see whether the judge interpret it the same way as my son did.

[FloweryMonk]

Personally, if the kid is 12yrs old now, even if you add in the estimated duration of all the pending legal proceedings, he will almost or as good as turn 16yrs old already.
If you think objectively, then all the expenses time effort etc for the legal will be for nothing.
I still strongly recommend you use this time to build your own capital assets and wait for your kid to turn 16.

That's my opinion, it may not be the same as yours.

thanks brother, i did think objectively over the past 10 years. i believe and trust in this family will remain unbroken, which is best for my son, if i can endure more pain onto myself from her bullshits. Now i am left with nothing but debts, incurred by her but under my name to show. in fact, i am homeless now after chased out. Again the question of custody vs money comes here. i think money can be earned again but custody is cast in stone after court judgement.

[FloweryMonk]

A few more questions,
1) while waiting for a decision on how much to pay her alimony/maintenance, how much should i be giving to her monthly since she is with my son while i am out of house?
2) while waiting for a judgement on custody, can she prevent me from seeing my son?
3) while waiting for a judgement on custody, can my son live with me instead of his mother? or live with a 3rd party?
4) can i retrieve my past medical records from hospital or police records / cases from the police? how to do as i want to get proof of her bullshit?
5) how can i retreive her past medical records? she said she had depression
6) will getting a gf or cheonging further damage my standing in a contested divorce?

[fallen11]

thanks brother, u have good advises that set me thinking for days.
1) if no need 20k upfront payment, but progressive over 2 years is ok for me.
2) will WC support false accusation? i too have a lot of factual accusations which happened over the years but i dun have paper proof. i am thinking how to get substantial proof.
3) i am calming down for 2 months before now. thinking is not what i am good at, and i still dun understand the argument of money over custody. But i will save for my son's future and will be able to support whether now or in future.
4) do you mean WC will make me guilty as accused until proven innocent? but yes i am prepared. i endured all the pains over the past 10 years and even now i felt painful / stress that i can drop tears in public. i need to be brave now.
5) i believe the mother loves her son too much to drag him to death with her. But i believe the mother will commit suicide when pushed to the extreme emotions. Belief in this had myself tied to being a yes-man in this household for years and enduring all the abuses. My son also see in the family and pointed out to me that she is trying to guilt-trip me. this is the first time i learn this word "guilt-trip". That is why he ask me to try to fight for him because my son wants to see whether the judge interpret it the same way as my son did.

1) Yes progressive payment. Over how long? i'm not sure. Depends on court date and complexity of the case. $10k upfront just to open the case is expected (this was pre covid pricing).

2) WC does not support false accusations. But it does not penalise the woman from making false accusations. She can make countless false police reports against you and nothing will happen to her.

3) its a personal choice for this.

4) WC will not make you guilty till proven otherwise in court, but it will make you guilty in society. Assuming you are a salaried employee. How do you think your co workers and employer feel, when police come to your work place every few weeks and drag you away to "assist in investigations". Or even your ex wife making up false accusations and post it on social media to make your employer look bad? If you are self employed, it will be much less of a trouble for you.

5) yes a mother loves her child, for sure. But.... this love also extends to "love beyond life". Not just in life. Which is why some mothers hug their child and die together, than to lose them to someone else. Yes she will even abuse your child just to keep him. I was a victim myself. Almost died too when she cornered me at home and waved that chopper right into my face. Was at the point that i almost risked it all to fight her for my life rather than let her do it. Lucky she didnt make that chop.