Love or KC

[LaoYangZi]

Allow me to chime in. I know many bros here all cautioned against falling into this KC trap and rightly so. But at the end of the day, ML are here to do a job just like hairdresser, nail spa therapist, foot massage therapist etc. so I don’t agree we be asshole and test the ML

My story is similar and yet different. I’m in a typical sexless marriage, cordial relationship with wife but nothing too exciting. So I did the occasional ML routine to satisfy own needs. Until I met T earlier this year

T is not your usual ML, highly intelligent, articulates well, but a series of poor choices in life brought her to the current situation. She’s got a pile of debts from failed biz, big family bills to pay every month. Good thing she’s not got a gambling problem (another topic altogether)

She’s new to the industry and I found myself texting her on WC as I’m so intrigued by her situation. She said she only engages in conversations with me. And also showed me lots of other male clients all wanna get to “next level” with her but she declined all.

One phase in this engagement she was also trying to be aloof with me and don’t respond to my text. Until recent weeks… she said she would not bother with any other male customers’ unwanted advances. But she found me mature, sensible and tackles problems systematically so much so she asked my help to counsel her recently graduated son (she was a teenage mother, another one of her bad choices when young)

Long story short. She also confessed to me her feelings but declared that she won’t allow herself to wreck my family. She’s envious and also happy for my family. We agreed to stay calm and enjoy making memories and each other company. No expectations are needed of each other.

She don’t want any things (no demands of luxury items) from me. She’s acutely aware my bros all cautioned me against ML. Similarly her fellow ML in the shop also cautioned against customers, urging her to keep it transactional.

She shared her inner thoughts and conflicts (eg struggles of being in this industry). She lamented meeting me in such circumstances. But we both somewhat come to terms with the situation. I still pay for her services but we both know it’s more than transactional. She still goes out for meals with me (again declined meal invites from other customers). When we buy snacks back go the MP, she would pay and declared to everyone it’s from me.

I think any of the bros here who have some KC involved, needs to be conscious about the situation. Will I split up with the wife to be with T? Unlikely and T don’t want that to happen. A certain level of mature conversation needs to take place. Meanwhile I’ll enjoy the perks and privileges that come with my elevated status and enjoy the journey.

Classic case of 进一步，没资格，退一步，不舍得

[LaoYangZi]

Resend in case if previous respond got stuck at admin side


Allow me to chime in. I know many bros here all cautioned against falling into this KC trap and rightly so. But at the end of the day, ML are here to do a job just like hairdresser, nail spa therapist, foot massage therapist etc. so I don’t agree we be asshole and test the ML

My story is similar and yet different. I’m in a typical sexless marriage, cordial relationship with wife but nothing too exciting. So I did the occasional ML routine to satisfy own needs. Until I met T earlier this year

T is not your usual ML, highly intelligent, articulates well, but a series of poor choices in life brought her to the current situation. She’s got a pile of debts from failed biz, big family bills to pay every month. Good thing she’s not got a gambling problem (another topic altogether)

She’s new to the industry and I found myself texting her on WC as I’m so intrigued by her situation. She said she only engages in conversations with me. And also showed me lots of other male clients all wanna get to “next level” with her but she declined all.

One phase in this engagement she was also trying to be aloof with me and don’t respond to my text. Until recent weeks… she said she would not bother with any other male customers’ unwanted advances. But she found me mature, sensible and tackles problems systematically so much so she asked my help to counsel her recently graduated son (she was a teenage mother, another one of her bad choices when young)

Long story short. She also confessed to me her feelings but declared that she won’t allow herself to wreck my family. She’s envious and also happy for my family. We agreed to stay calm and enjoy making memories and each other company. No expectations are needed of each other.

She don’t want any things (no demands of luxury items) from me. She’s acutely aware my bros all cautioned me against ML. Similarly her fellow ML in the shop also cautioned against customers, urging her to keep it transactional.

She shared her inner thoughts and conflicts (eg struggles of being in this industry). She lamented meeting me in such circumstances. But we both somewhat come to terms with the situation. I still pay for her services but we both know it’s more than transactional. She still goes out for meals with me (again declined meal invites from other customers). When we buy snacks back go the MP, she would pay and declared to everyone it’s from me.

I think any of the bros here who have some KC involved, needs to be conscious about the situation. Will I split up with the wife to be with T? Unlikely and T don’t want that to happen. A certain level of mature conversation needs to take place. Meanwhile I’ll enjoy the perks and privileges that come with my elevated status and enjoy the journey.

Classic case of 进一步，没资格，退一步，不舍得

[Allenc3]

Originally Posted by LaoYangZi

( Click to show/hide )

Allow me to chime in. I know many bros here all cautioned against falling into this KC trap and rightly so. But at the end of the day, ML are here to do a job just like hairdresser, nail spa therapist, foot massage therapist etc. so I don’t agree we be asshole and test the ML

My story is similar and yet different. I’m in a typical sexless marriage, cordial relationship with wife but nothing too exciting. So I did the occasional ML routine to satisfy own needs. Until I met T earlier this year

T is not your usual ML, highly intelligent, articulates well, but a series of poor choices in life brought her to the current situation. She’s got a pile of debts from failed biz, big family bills to pay every month. Good thing she’s not got a gambling problem (another topic altogether)

She’s new to the industry and I found myself texting her on WC as I’m so intrigued by her situation. She said she only engages in conversations with me. And also showed me lots of other male clients all wanna get to “next level” with her but she declined all.

One phase in this engagement she was also trying to be aloof with me and don’t respond to my text. Until recent weeks… she said she would not bother with any other male customers’ unwanted advances. But she found me mature, sensible and tackles problems systematically so much so she asked my help to counsel her recently graduated son (she was a teenage mother, another one of her bad choices when young)

Long story short. She also confessed to me her feelings but declared that she won’t allow herself to wreck my family. She’s envious and also happy for my family. We agreed to stay calm and enjoy making memories and each other company. No expectations are needed of each other.

She don’t want any things (no demands of luxury items) from me. She’s acutely aware my bros all cautioned me against ML. Similarly her fellow ML in the shop also cautioned against customers, urging her to keep it transactional.

She shared her inner thoughts and conflicts (eg struggles of being in this industry). She lamented meeting me in such circumstances. But we both somewhat come to terms with the situation. I still pay for her services but we both know it’s more than transactional. She still goes out for meals with me (again declined meal invites from other customers). When we buy snacks back go the MP, she would pay and declared to everyone it’s from me.

I think any of the bros here who have some KC involved, needs to be conscious about the situation. Will I split up with the wife to be with T? Unlikely and T don’t want that to happen. A certain level of mature conversation needs to take place. Meanwhile I’ll enjoy the perks and privileges that come with my elevated status and enjoy the journey.

Classic case of 进一步，没资格，退一步，不舍得

Only 1 guy here talked about not paying up for hotel. And apart from that, sex without paying isn't being an asshole. With both willing parties. If ML really likes / in love with you, she wouldn't want u to waste money visiting or make it feel transactional and thus no payment for sex. Hotel overnight fees sure you should pay for it, but if paying for sex as well then you are just being a customer and nothing more.
Everything else is just like any relationship, it comes naturally with no requirement that the guy should be paying for everything. Even for MLs.

Most MLs have their own backstories tbh, yours isn't all that special either, no offence. The 1 thing in common is they want and need money. Also, take it with a grain of salt what she assures you about. You simply don't know and even if she shows you her phone(s), they always clear chat logs often. And they could do the same assuring with a few guys out of the thousands she had serviced.

You are not exclusive, even if you raw, CIP or whatever, how sure are you that she isn't entertaining others with the same things or maintaining close contact with other guys? You do know for customer retention its impossible for her to not chat, flirt with other guys to get them to visit and tip her for her extra services. Especially non-SYTs. You will never know for sure unless u pull her out of this job entirely, marry and control her life.

So yes, simply maintain status quo as you do not wish to progress further, have fun with it but take what she says with a grain of salt. Do not fall too deep to start caring about her deeply. From what you have written you have already sunk in thinking that you are someone who is special to her. But do note that she most likely also have several "special" guys, each to a different extent that you do not know about.

[LaoYangZi]

Originally Posted by Allenc3

Only 1 guy here talked about not paying up for hotel. And apart from that, sex without paying isn't being an asshole. With both willing parties. If ML really likes / in love with you, she wouldn't want u to waste money visiting or make it feel transactional and thus no payment for sex. Hotel overnight fees sure you should pay for it, but if paying for sex as well then you are just being a customer and nothing more.
Everything else is just like any relationship, it comes naturally with no requirement that the guy should be paying for everything. Even for MLs.

Most MLs have their own backstories tbh, yours isn't all that special either, no offence. The 1 thing in common is they want and need money. Also, take it with a grain of salt what she assures you about. You simply don't know and even if she shows you her phone(s), they always clear chat logs often. And they could do the same assuring with a few guys out of the thousands she had serviced.

You are not exclusive, even if you raw, CIP or whatever, how sure are you that she isn't entertaining others with the same things or maintaining close contact with other guys? You do know for customer retention its impossible for her to not chat, flirt with other guys to get them to visit and tip her for her extra services. Especially non-SYTs. You will never know for sure unless u pull her out of this job entirely, marry and control her life.

So yes, simply maintain status quo as you do not wish to progress further, have fun with it but take what she says with a grain of salt. Do not fall too deep to start caring about her deeply. From what you have written you have already sunk in thinking that you are someone who is special to her. But do note that she most likely also have several "special" guys, each to a different extent that you do not know about.

Fair points bro. Yes the backstory is probably similar with many ML, but honestly which lady wanna end up in this trade if not for circumstances beyond their control.

And yes I’ve started taking her out on dates including hotels and she made no demands on payment but I insist anyway, even if it’s token sum.

Am I exclusive or not… I’ll leave it to my better judgement. But your observations are well noted. Bottom line is, between the ML and I, nobody is making any demands (monetary or otherwise). This level of consciousness is important so as not sink into the abyss of KC-ness.

[javier001]

Originally Posted by LaoYangZi

Resend in case if previous respond got stuck at admin side


Allow me to chime in. I know many bros here all cautioned against falling into this KC trap and rightly so. But at the end of the day, ML are here to do a job just like hairdresser, nail spa therapist, foot massage therapist etc. so I don’t agree we be asshole and test the ML

My story is similar and yet different. I’m in a typical sexless marriage, cordial relationship with wife but nothing too exciting. So I did the occasional ML routine to satisfy own needs. Until I met T earlier this year

T is not your usual ML, highly intelligent, articulates well, but a series of poor choices in life brought her to the current situation. She’s got a pile of debts from failed biz, big family bills to pay every month. Good thing she’s not got a gambling problem (another topic altogether)

She’s new to the industry and I found myself texting her on WC as I’m so intrigued by her situation. She said she only engages in conversations with me. And also showed me lots of other male clients all wanna get to “next level” with her but she declined all.

One phase in this engagement she was also trying to be aloof with me and don’t respond to my text. Until recent weeks… she said she would not bother with any other male customers’ unwanted advances. But she found me mature, sensible and tackles problems systematically so much so she asked my help to counsel her recently graduated son (she was a teenage mother, another one of her bad choices when young)

Long story short. She also confessed to me her feelings but declared that she won’t allow herself to wreck my family. She’s envious and also happy for my family. We agreed to stay calm and enjoy making memories and each other company. No expectations are needed of each other.

She don’t want any things (no demands of luxury items) from me. She’s acutely aware my bros all cautioned me against ML. Similarly her fellow ML in the shop also cautioned against customers, urging her to keep it transactional.


Classic case of 进一步，没资格，退一步，不舍得

Thank you for the share bro.

sexless marriage is pretty common in SG.. coupled with high cost of living, sometimes just really wanna get out of here.. ( had to cut short the quote cos no space)

[GTR Z-TUNE]

Originally Posted by LaoYangZi

Fair points bro. Yes the backstory is probably similar with many ML, but honestly which lady wanna end up in this trade if not for circumstances beyond their control.

And yes I’ve started taking her out on dates including hotels and she made no demands on payment but I insist anyway, even if it’s token sum.

Am I exclusive or not… I’ll leave it to my better judgement. But your observations are well noted. Bottom line is, between the ML and I, nobody is making any demands (monetary or otherwise). This level of consciousness is important so as not sink into the abyss of KC-ness.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm in the same predicament except that the ML I'm after shows all hallmarks of being a red flag. She asks for luxury items and loves money probably more than anything but her original intent is to earn as much as possible during her stint here so I can't despise her for that.

The same old sob stories apply here as well, debts and her entire family on her shoulder. She too is new to the industry and I have known her long enough such that she shares part and parcel of her life with me as well. Though she claims being true to me in terms of communication and the services I get, truth is I can only take it with a grain of salt. She's kinda honest in saying what she does with other customers (only basic) but fact is only she has full visibility on what goes on behind those closed curtains. Call me dumb but I'm just willing to give her benefit of doubt.

She has become immensely popular such that many regulars would shower her gifts, daily food deliveries and buying her hours out for expensive dining, movies etc, so I guess she's kinda enjoying all the attention being the receiving end, but then again I could see it as her way of retaining regulars so I can't really stop her from attending all these dates since that's part of her job.

I have been patronizing her a lot, like almost everyday and have brought her out for dates as well, guess at the end I don't expect anything in return even though she does show affection to me, but again whether exclusive to me or not I can't tell and probably doesn't matter at this point.

I'm glad that you still retain that level of consciousness but I can honestly say I've lost mine.

[LaoYangZi]

Originally Posted by GTR Z-TUNE

Thanks for sharing your experience, I'm in the same predicament except that the ML I'm after shows all hallmarks of being a red flag. She asks for luxury items and loves money probably more than anything but her original intent is to earn as much as possible during her stint here so I can't despise her for that.

The same old sob stories apply here as well, debts and her entire family on her shoulder. She too is new to the industry and I have known her long enough such that she shares part and parcel of her life with me as well. Though she claims being true to me in terms of communication and the services I get, truth is I can only take it with a grain of salt. She's kinda honest in saying what she does with other customers (only basic) but fact is only she has full visibility on what goes on behind those closed curtains. Call me dumb but I'm just willing to give her benefit of doubt.

She has become immensely popular such that many regulars would shower her gifts, daily food deliveries and buying her hours out for expensive dining, movies etc, so I guess she's kinda enjoying all the attention being the receiving end, but then again I could see it as her way of retaining regulars so I can't really stop her from attending all these dates since that's part of her job.

I have been patronizing her a lot, like almost everyday and have brought her out for dates as well, guess at the end I don't expect anything in return even though she does show affection to me, but again whether exclusive to me or not I can't tell and probably doesn't matter at this point.

I'm glad that you still retain that level of consciousness but I can honestly say I've lost mine.

You need to snap yourself out of it, or maintain a level of consciousness. I’ve also been at the shop almost daily just to have lunch / coffee with her or quick shower after my golf game. Just to stay connected.

My friends cautioned me. And her friends cautioned her against me. We maintained we can only be friends with hand holding and kisses, bit like lovers but fully aware there is no end result for us both.

So it’s acceptance on our parts. Don’t sink too deep.

[GTR Z-TUNE]

Originally Posted by LaoYangZi

You need to snap yourself out of it, or maintain a level of consciousness. I’ve also been at the shop almost daily just to have lunch / coffee with her or quick shower after my golf game. Just to stay connected.

My friends cautioned me. And her friends cautioned her against me. We maintained we can only be friends with hand holding and kisses, bit like lovers but fully aware there is no end result for us both.

So it’s acceptance on our parts. Don’t sink too deep.

It's perhaps too late at this point, we have gotten close such that she actually does tolerates my jealousy at times towards her customers, yes I'm in this deep now. Fact is that she always does explains herself and says I'm overthinking too much. Honestly I don't give a crap about her other customers but it hits me when I just happen to come across certain points.

I'm a married man same like you, will I give up my marriage for her, probably yes, on the context that I have keys to a Delorean time machine with Doc Brown beside me, advising me on the consequences for changing the timeline.

Sounds cheesy but that's my genuine feel right now.

[LauAdi]

Don’t need to test MLs. They’re not your wives or long term partners you test already got what?
Some may dangle FJ in front of you as a reward to unlock, some use it to make your relationship sticky…etc
But even if they do offer FJ, CIP also doesn’t mean anything
Especially if they do it for $$, it means you are not and will not be the only one
Got a syt ML last time asked me to help her choose her wedding gown, show me her fiancé’s photo and discuss her wedding plans while offering free raw and CIP cos she liked snuggling up to me
You decide

[Sian1234567]

Originally Posted by GTR Z-TUNE

It's perhaps too late at this point, we have gotten close such that she actually does tolerates my jealousy at times towards her customers, yes I'm in this deep now. Fact is that she always does explains herself and says I'm overthinking too much. Honestly I don't give a crap about her other customers but it hits me when I just happen to come across certain points.

I'm a married man same like you, will I give up my marriage for her, probably yes, on the context that I have keys to a Delorean time machine with Doc Brown beside me, advising me on the consequences for changing the timeline.

Sounds cheesy but that's my genuine feel right now.

They are here to make money…if not they won’t be here. There’s a reason why many rtc and come back again on the same trade as the money is too good by selling themselves. Even if you are rich enough can you bury her past that she has multiple clients texting them, or even chatting with them…never give up what you have now for a moment of lust

[StarTwinkle]

Originally Posted by GTR Z-TUNE

I have been patronizing her a lot, like almost everyday and have brought her out for dates as well, guess at the end I don't expect anything in return even though she does show affection to me, but again whether exclusive to me or not I can't tell and probably doesn't matter at this point.

I'm glad that you still retain that level of consciousness but I can honestly say I've lost mine.

Take a break and see clearly bro.

[LuisitoAngel]

Originally Posted by Sian1234567

They are here to make money…if not they won’t be here. There’s a reason why many rtc and come back again on the same trade as the money is too good by selling themselves. Even if you are rich enough can you bury her past that she has multiple clients texting them, or even chatting with them…never give up what you have now for a moment of lust

money makes the world go round man.. spoken with FLs and honestly, no other biz can make money as good and fast as FL.. but the sacrifice is big.

Most FLs just hope to make as much money when they can, either find a rich husband or " start a biz". but with money comes another set of problems. so its one vicious cycle.

[LauAdi]

Originally Posted by LuisitoAngel

money makes the world go round man.. spoken with FLs and honestly, no other biz can make money as good and fast as FL.. but the sacrifice is big.

Most FLs just hope to make as much money when they can, either find a rich husband or " start a biz". but with money comes another set of problems. so its one vicious cycle.

The biggest danger for them imo is that when they are used to making so much money so quickly, it’s very hard to adjust back to the “normal” way

[LuisitoAngel]

Originally Posted by LauAdi

The biggest danger for them imo is that when they are used to making so much money so quickly, it’s very hard to adjust back to the “normal” way

bingo! hit the nail on the head. i've spoken with FLs. they are making easily 5 digits per month. how to go back to making normal honest living. hope those smart enough to invest. i know one who actually funded a biz and then moved to singapore. hope she's doing ok

[LauAdi]

Originally Posted by LuisitoAngel

bingo! hit the nail on the head. i've spoken with FLs. they are making easily 5 digits per month. how to go back to making normal honest living. hope those smart enough to invest. i know one who actually funded a biz and then moved to singapore. hope she's doing ok

That’s a good ending, congrats to her
Some former angpais told me gross is 5 digit but net is 4 digit
And they rejected some rich (and old) bros offering to bao them
Rather go back home rent apartment eat porridge haha
Next thing go on holiday and asking should come back to work or not
Wish them luck