MOM approval for marriage (ex WP holder)

[purposeseeker]

Hi all, hope to seek some advice on a situation i'm facing.

Context: girlfriend is a ex WP holder (more than a year ago) whom I met outside of SG. She's currently pregnant and we're doing marriage preparations. Only now realised that ex WP holders need MOM approval letter to marry. Then went on to read that even ex WP holders can't get pregnant before marriage. On the declaration form it asks if we're expecting a child. Afraid of rejection as it will make everything very difficult for us.

Anyone had faced the same situation before? What's my chances of MOM approving us to marry?

Would appreciate any help or advice available please, thank you so much.

[Penguin23]

Originally Posted by purposeseeker

Hi all, hope to seek some advice on a situation i'm facing.

Context: girlfriend is a ex WP holder (more than a year ago) whom I met outside of SG. She's currently pregnant and we're doing marriage preparations. Only now realised that ex WP holders need MOM approval letter to marry. Then went on to read that even ex WP holders can't get pregnant before marriage. On the declaration form it asks if we're expecting a child. Afraid of rejection as it will make everything very difficult for us.

Anyone had faced the same situation before? What's my chances of MOM approving us to marry?

Would appreciate any help or advice available please, thank you so much.

If you are Singaporean, rejection should have no impact on the long-term. My gf is an ex-WP (and later on, ex-Spass holder). I learnt that there is not much difference whether you marry legally in her home country or in Singapore - the marriage will be recognized.

That said, the circumstances surrounding your wife's stay as a WP holder matters. If she was repatriated due to a vice raid, things can get complicated. If she completed her WP stint with no police record, then the approval process is merely administrative.

So long you marry her (in SG or overseas) before the child is born, then the baby is entitled to Singapore citizenship. If your wife gives birth in Singapore, the baby gets Singapore citizenship at birth and your wife will, at the minimum, be granted an LTVP.

Longer term, when it is obvious that your wife and your child plans to stay in Singapore you can sponsor your wife for SPR.

Things become significantly more complicated, if you marry after she gives birth. Please avoid that scenario at all costs.

[purposeseeker]

Originally Posted by Penguin23

That said, the circumstances surrounding your wife's stay as a WP holder matters. If she was repatriated due to a vice raid, things can get complicated. If she completed her WP stint with no police record, then the approval process is merely administrative.

Hi Senior Bro thanks for your input.

She had completed her WP stint without any record or anything. The part I am concerned about is the part where we declare that she is pregnant and we are expecting a child. Because on MOM website it states this

"You are only allowed to get pregnant and give birth to a child in Singapore if you are already married with MOM’s approval to a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident.
These regulations apply even after your Work Permit has expired."

I read on another forum that mentioned gf was ex WP and they submitted the form for approval and declared they are expecting a child. And the result was a rejection due to conceiving before marriage and 1 year entry ban. Am worried because I am in the same situation, difference is that it is has been more than a year since the WP expired.

[Penguin23]

Originally Posted by purposeseeker

Hi Senior Bro thanks for your input.

She had completed her WP stint without any record or anything. The part I am concerned about is the part where we declare that she is pregnant and we are expecting a child. Because on MOM website it states this

"You are only allowed to get pregnant and give birth to a child in Singapore if you are already married with MOM’s approval to a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident.
These regulations apply even after your Work Permit has expired."

I read on another forum that mentioned gf was ex WP and they submitted the form for approval and declared they are expecting a child. And the result was a rejection due to conceiving before marriage and 1 year entry ban. Am worried because I am in the same situation, difference is that it is has been more than a year since the WP expired.

If it was clear, that the baby conceived after her WP expiry there should be no issue. All that said, I think it would be difficult for you to obtain a written assurance from ICA if this is what you are looking for.

As I mentioned above, you can still marry overseas to give your child legitimate status. Where you marry has no bearing on the citizenship rights of your child or the chances for your wife-to-be for an LTVP and subsequently, SPR. The mother of a Singaporean child is nearly always granted an LTVP

[purposeseeker]

Originally Posted by Penguin23

If it was clear, that the baby conceived after her WP expiry there should be no issue. All that said, I think it would be difficult for you to obtain a written assurance from ICA if this is what you are looking for.

As I mentioned above, you can still marry overseas to give your child legitimate status. Where you marry has no bearing on the citizenship rights of your child or the chances for your wife-to-be for an LTVP and subsequently, SPR. The mother of a Singaporean child is nearly always granted an LTVP

Yes I'm aware on the part about citizenship rights for my child. However, if MOM decides to not give me approval to marry and cruelly gives my wife-to-be a ban from entering sg as well, no way they will give an LTVP right? I also do not have a choice to marry overseas instead. From MOM website:

"My future spouse used to be a Work Permit holder, but no longer works in Singapore. Do we still need approval to get married?
Yes. If their last-held pass was a Work Permit, they must still get approval from MOM to marry a Singapore citizen or permanent resident.
You may only register your marriage in or outside of Singapore after your spouse-to-be has obtained approval."

What choice would I have then.. If f*ck it and just marry overseas, end up offend MOM's rule above, although my child can be Singaporean, wouldn't that mean the mother won't be able to enter Singapore to be with her own child?

[Penguin23]

Originally Posted by purposeseeker

Yes I'm aware on the part about citizenship rights for my child. However, if MOM decides to not give me approval to marry and cruelly gives my wife-to-be a ban from entering sg as well, no way they will give an LTVP right? I also do not have a choice to marry overseas instead. From MOM website:

"My future spouse used to be a Work Permit holder, but no longer works in Singapore. Do we still need approval to get married?
Yes. If their last-held pass was a Work Permit, they must still get approval from MOM to marry a Singapore citizen or permanent resident.
You may only register your marriage in or outside of Singapore after your spouse-to-be has obtained approval."

What choice would I have then.. If f*ck it and just marry overseas, end up offend MOM's rule above, although my child can be Singaporean, wouldn't that mean the mother won't be able to enter Singapore to be with her own child?

Your main worry seems to be the threat of an entry ban on your wife-to-be.

I am not an immigration consultant, it's just that I have seen many of my cheongster friends marry foreign ladies and have kids with them both here and overseas. I can tell you what some of them have done, in circumstances that are very similar to yours

The "kia si" camp will declare and face the consequences whatever they may be. You already know the potential consequences of this option - you seem very afraid of the entry ban even though the baby was conceived after her WP stint was over. Basically - Just follow law, declare upfront and risk the mother and the kid being locked out of Singapore if MOM is somehow not happy.

The "chiong" camp will marry overseas, fuck care the MOM permission. Have the kid and the mother travel together on the same (foreign) passport into Singapore. Without an entry ban, ICA will treat your wife as a tourist travelling in with a newborn. Once they are in Singapore, apply for Singapore citizenship for your child and an LTVP for your wife. Mentally prepare yourself for ICA appeals, attend MPS sessions for appeal letters and basically adopt the idea that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. So long as you apply for citizenship within a year of birth, your child's SC application is straightforward.

From my personal observation, ICA does not "kick out" mothers of Singapore citizens as long as they have entered lawfully. The offence of marrying without permission is not a crime. An overwhelming majority of my cheongster friends chose the latter option, but as always, your mileage may vary.

Discuss with your wife to see which set of risks you prefer to bear.

All the best.

[purposeseeker]

Originally Posted by Penguin23

Your main worry seems to be the threat of an entry ban on your wife-to-be.

I am not an immigration consultant, it's just that I have seen many of my cheongster friends marry foreign ladies and have kids with them both here and overseas. I can tell you what some of them have done, in circumstances that are very similar to yours

The "kia si" camp will declare and face the consequences whatever they may be. You already know the potential consequences of this option - you seem very afraid of the entry ban even though the baby was conceived after her WP stint was over. Basically - Just follow law, declare upfront and risk the mother and the kid being locked out of Singapore if MOM is somehow not happy.

The "chiong" camp will marry overseas, fuck care the MOM permission. Have the kid and the mother travel together on the same (foreign) passport into Singapore. Without an entry ban, ICA will treat your wife as a tourist travelling in with a newborn. Once they are in Singapore, apply for Singapore citizenship for your child and an LTVP for your wife. Mentally prepare yourself for ICA appeals, attend MPS sessions for appeal letters and basically adopt the idea that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. So long as you apply for citizenship within a year of birth, your child's SC application is straightforward.

From my personal observation, ICA does not "kick out" mothers of Singapore citizens as long as they have entered lawfully. The offence of marrying without permission is not a crime. An overwhelming majority of my cheongster friends chose the latter option, but as always, your mileage may vary.

Discuss with your wife to see which set of risks you prefer to bear.

All the best.

Thanks for the golden advice kind bro. Noted and will discuss and see how we should go about it. If anyone else has been in similar situation please do share your experience as well it will be much appreciated.

[Penguin23]

Originally Posted by purposeseeker

Thanks for the golden advice kind bro. Noted and will discuss and see how we should go about it. If anyone else has been in similar situation please do share your experience as well it will be much appreciated.

My closing comment, which you do not need to reply to, is that none of my advice above applies if the "WP" you referenced belonged to a GL WL.

That is a special class of WP which has no pathway to a long-term stay in Singapore.

In that case, your child will still get Singapore citizenship but the mother can never get a long term permit in Singapore. She will have to resort to being here on an extended Social Visit Pass subject to the "60 in 90 day rule" (i.e you can only be in Singapore for 60 consecutive days, in a 3-month period)

[JacqueMerlin]

Originally Posted by Penguin23

Your main worry seems to be the threat of an entry ban on your wife-to-be.

I am not an immigration consultant, it's just that I have seen many of my cheongster friends marry foreign ladies and have kids with them both here and overseas. I can tell you what some of them have done, in circumstances that are very similar to yours

The "kia si" camp will declare and face the consequences whatever they may be. You already know the potential consequences of this option - you seem very afraid of the entry ban even though the baby was conceived after her WP stint was over. Basically - Just follow law, declare upfront and risk the mother and the kid being locked out of Singapore if MOM is somehow not happy.

The "chiong" camp will marry overseas, fuck care the MOM permission. Have the kid and the mother travel together on the same (foreign) passport into Singapore. Without an entry ban, ICA will treat your wife as a tourist travelling in with a newborn. Once they are in Singapore, apply for Singapore citizenship for your child and an LTVP for your wife. Mentally prepare yourself for ICA appeals, attend MPS sessions for appeal letters and basically adopt the idea that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. So long as you apply for citizenship within a year of birth, your child's SC application is straightforward.

From my personal observation, ICA does not "kick out" mothers of Singapore citizens as long as they have entered lawfully. The offence of marrying without permission is not a crime. An overwhelming majority of my cheongster friends chose the latter option, but as always, your mileage may vary.

Discuss with your wife to see which set of risks you prefer to bear.

All the best.

Take the 2nd option from my experiences.

[LauAdi]

Not legal advice, just airing some thoughts okay
Be prepared to ask MP for help
If you declare, they probably have no choice but to reject
From what you typed, you met her and fell in love outside of sg and had a kid with her
So you want to marry her and bring her and kid over to sg
Is it a boy? If so, you’d want your boy to serve ns
Good luck

[TMNT99]

I have a suggestion that you can consider if your GF is from another ASEAN country with under-table GOV culture. perhaps back-dating the marriage date by 1 year may solve this for you.

[Peter845]

Originally Posted by Penguin23

Your main worry seems to be the threat of an entry ban on your wife-to-be.

I am not an immigration consultant, it's just that I have seen many of my cheongster friends marry foreign ladies and have kids with them both here and overseas. I can tell you what some of them have done, in circumstances that are very similar to yours

The "kia si" camp will declare and face the consequences whatever they may be. You already know the potential consequences of this option - you seem very afraid of the entry ban even though the baby was conceived after her WP stint was over. Basically - Just follow law, declare upfront and risk the mother and the kid being locked out of Singapore if MOM is somehow not happy.

The "chiong" camp will marry overseas, fuck care the MOM permission. Have the kid and the mother travel together on the same (foreign) passport into Singapore. Without an entry ban, ICA will treat your wife as a tourist travelling in with a newborn. Once they are in Singapore, apply for Singapore citizenship for your child and an LTVP for your wife. Mentally prepare yourself for ICA appeals, attend MPS sessions for appeal letters and basically adopt the idea that it is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. So long as you apply for citizenship within a year of birth, your child's SC application is straightforward.

From my personal observation, ICA does not "kick out" mothers of Singapore citizens as long as they have entered lawfully. The offence of marrying without permission is not a crime. An overwhelming majority of my cheongster friends chose the latter option, but as always, your mileage may vary.

Discuss with your wife to see which set of risks you prefer to bear.

All the best.

That's an excellent reply bro. Thanks for sharing

my 2 cents

From my dealings with some gov agencies, the kiasi people will encounter the scholars at ICA who follow the book strictly. So if the book says cannot, means cannot. so its no point risking or hoping they will pang chance for you

like bro penguin said, 2nd option i feel is the best, at least your wife and kid are able to enter sg. once in SG, visit MP and write letter etc. the " person" approving these kind of things needs to " pin responsibility" on someone else if they approve it outside of the book.

As such if MP can write letter for you based on whatever reasons, then whoever is processing this kind of stuff within ICA will file the letter together and then approve it. If they get questioned, they can say " eeh this guy get MP to write letter, have to follow if not get into trouble"

hope this logic helps